Andreas Grau wrote: > On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:35:37 +0100 > Stefan Hornburg <suppressed> wrote: > > >>Andreas Grau wrote: >> >>>And many of the PHP carts are, well, good looking. Hardly any IC shop >>>in the hall of fame is nice and modern. And inviting. >> >>Do you have any nice examples for us ? > > > I am not sure what you mean. Or are you asking me to name shops I like, > and then we enter a pissing contest about why you don't like them ? I just want to look at nice, modern and inviting shops. Maybe we can borrow some ideas from them. > > >>>Next, IC is largely unsupported. If you look in the mailing list >>>archives, there are tons of serious questions which remain without >>>answer. The other IRC channel is mostly dead. >>> >> >>I think the majority of questions will be answered, sooner or later. >>Because of the variety and the wide range of application for Interchange >>it is hard to answer any question. After all, any of the Interchange developers >>has to earn his living. > > > I have tried hard not to make my remarks critizing any Interchange > developer personally. This is not my intention. I was mirroring my > impression that you better have to have good IC knowledge before you ask. > I don't mind fair comments and I hope sames goes for the other developers :-). > >>>Then, IC is not really documented. Since when I follow IC, there has >>>been zero visible progress on the docs. >> >>Did you look at the XML documentation at all ? > > > More than once, yes. My guess would be that more than one third have no > examples, many tags are not documented, the cross-reference is broken > and the source is often not the right one. > > Interchange Reference Pages: Tags : 227 Tags, of which 157 are without > description. A meager 70% undocumented ! > > >>That might be also a coincidence with almost zero input to the documentation >>from the Interchange community. > > > I knew this would come. And we are getting to point. Because I believe > this is not true. A couple of months back, I tried to understand the > templating system and how all the components fall together. I described > my findings and posted them here. Two answers with clarification, so I > would think it would have been a copy-and-paste to have a new doc > describing the templating system. Point taken. > > Tag documentation is probably up to the programmer anyway. Some of > which are known not to be too talkative ;-) > In an ideal world, that is right. > And then there once was a wiki. Gone as the inline pods. I would even say > that documentation is being reduced. > > >>>Take an unsupportive mailing list plus zero docs, and you come to think >>>that IC is actually a closed-shop solution. >>> >>>To a newbie, IC is very complex. I can tell you from my own experience. >>>And if one doesn't find a helping hand, he is likely to turn away again. >>> >>>What will be the consequences ? >>>- Further drain of installations >>>- Further drain of users >>>- Increasingly bad reputation (complex, ugly, unsupported, few users) >>> >>>In the end, there may be a team of dinosaurs who satisfies himself with >>>existing clients. Probably rationalizing that IC is technically better >>>than anything else. >> >>Even if that is the case, I don't necessarily need to care about it. >>There are more than enough existing clients for me, and once in a while, >>there are new ones coming in. Some have left, but most of them for other >>reasons than Interchange being an inferior product. > > > Of course. But this shouldn't be the target. Or is it. > > >>>Anybody remember Univac or Data General ? >>> >>> >>>For IC to have a future, I believe it would be necessary to >>>a) help people grow from newbie into intermediate state, so reciprocal >>>help can build momentum >>>b) do the marketing work: improve the docs, polish the sites, spread the word >>>c) leave the ivory tower (see a.) >>> >> >>IMHO b) is in fact really important, but in the moment there is a lack of manpower >>in the ICDEVGROUP. Sorry, but we working on it. > > > I believe that a) is the most important. We clearly have people on > board who are happy with things as they are, and who don't need a > helping hand. > > >>>I would appreciate it. And I hope we'll get somewhere with my >>>provocation. Unless I am the only one who feels like this. >> >>All that was already discussed multiple times, >>but people are better doing ramblings than helping out. > > > Is this a kind hint to shut up ? Nope, a hint for more people to participate. Bye Racke _______________________________________________ interchange-users mailing list suppressed http://www.icdevgroup.org/mailman/listinfo/interchange-users
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