RE: [cgiapp] Wiki as "Best practices" of CGI::App

[Peter Masiar <suppressed>]

Quoting "Adkins, Brad J" <suppressed>:

> ... I feel pretty strongly that for a
> project to be successful it must be easy to install and run on both windoz
> and nix. 

Sure. Windows will be strugling around for a while before will get
taken over by Linux ;-) 

> My experience with Twiki on windows was unfortunate. I never did get
> it working, primarily becuase of the CVS dependency and CVS is such a foreign
> tool on the Windows platform. 

It is hard to install even on Linux with root :-( 
I know it too well - that is part of the problem I want to solve.
Now twiki.org greatly improved docs how to install TWiki on Cygwin.
It even works - but it is not easy. I can send you a page if interested.

> Another thing I would like to see in a wiki
> project is some of the features of Blogging software. I would really like to
> see a Wiki that supports RSS and one that supports strong catagorization of
> the content, as well as open linking of the content (standard wiki metaphor).

I told you that Twiki has all the features ;-)
Twiki already has 
* RSS 
* comment plugin allowing to add comments to a page
  via comment form on page (with multiple instance possible,
  commenting on different sections of the page) - I can send a page how it looks
* email plugin which allows to reply to an email Twiki sent you 
  (with daily digest of changes) and Twiki will add email as comment
  to proper page (This is rumored to work as beta). Trick is, you need 
  to authorise batch process with right of the user emailing message.
* Twiki has categories to classify pages, look at any page 
  at twiki.org in Codev area - in the bottom.

> I think versioning is less important than searching and support for
> choronological and category based viewing (as options perhaps). Hence, I
> would not make CVS an integral part of the design, I would thing that
> database support for MySQL, PostgreSQL, and even Oracle, would be better
> backends. 

I agree that storage mechanizm is less important and should be abstracted.
But (at least for corporate world) is very important to see exactly who
wrote each paragraph, and keep the history perhaps for many years.

There are many wikis with database storage without CVS/RCS versioning.
Like UseMod, CGI::Wiki or a Chiq-Chaq. I do not see much sense
to add one more. I might be wrong - it happened to me before ;-)

Pages are just text, and filesystem is designed to store text files. 
What if admin cannot or does not want to run database?
I don't... for simple app like wiki. ;-)

But these are design details. If only two of us are interested,
I'll look into Kwiki and you into Chiq-Chaq, I guess ;-)


-- 
Peter Masiar, suppressed, (203) 764-8131
Yale Center for Medical Informatics (YCMI), http://ycmi.med.yale.edu
I am not a lawyer. My ideas are NOT binding for University.
In doubt, Yale policy right: http://www.yale.edu/policy/itaup.html 




> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Masiar [mailto:suppressed
> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 10:40 AM
> > To: Adkins, Brad J
> > Subject: RE: [cgiapp] Wiki as "Best practices" of CGI::App
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Brad,
> > 
> > Thank you for your offer.
> > 
> > Why you did not responded to the list?
> > If you do not mind this chat be public, you can forward it to 
> > the list.
> > 
> > See more below:
> > 
> > Quoting "Adkins, Brad J" <suppressed>:
> > 
> > > I would be interested in helping with such a project. 
> > 
> > Good!
> > 
> > > I'm not particularly
> > > experienced in developing wikis, but I would certainly help with
> > > documentation, etc., if not coding.
> > 
> > Good, too! Sometimes docs is the weakest point.
> > 
> > What is your skillset? Admin? Web designer? 
> > 
> > Unfortunatelly, I am also not guru perl hacker. If I would,
> > I'll just start hacking ;-) 
> > I would like to entice C:A community to do something good and learn
> > C:A in the process.
> > 
> > I am converting from Windows to Linux (slowly). Are you on Linux?
> > Which distro?
> > 
> > > 
> > > Why don't you put up a simple wiki to explore the design, 
> > 
> > Good idea to put specification into a wiki.
> > Of course, it was what I planned - but did not want to force it.
> > I already proposed to setup a wiki for CGI::App FAQ and was 
> > not accepted :(
> > 
> > > maybe a CGI::Wiki
> > > or a Chiq-Chaq Wiki 
> > http://www.beofen-tv.co.il/cgi-bin/chiq.pl?group=eng
> > > (it's Perl, quite nice). or a whateverwiki. 
> > 
> > As you can guess, I am heavily invested in Twiki, but it's 
> > not esy to setup.
> > 
> > Both CGI::Wiki or a Chiq-Chaq fails my key requirements:
> > * user authorisation
> > * full version control
> > * multiple areas (sections)
> > But especially Chiq-Chaq is nice and flexible. I like the way 
> > markup language
> > is customizable. 
> > 
> > Try to go to twiki-based site, like 
> > http://www.visiblearea.com/patterns/
> > After that, you can go to http://twiki.org . Don't get discouraged
> > by ugly skin (it's just skin) and look for the depth of issues 
> > researched and solved.
> > To see other nice skins for Twiki, go to my page 
> > http://twiki.med.yale.edu/twiki/bin/view/YMD/BetterSkin
> > where I link to nice skins. I recommend especially Koala Skin
> > 
> > See, I spent big part of last 2 years deep wikiing (and Twikiing),
> > so I can see in couple of minutes what I like or not.
> > My problem is, how to entice people to implement it. ;-)
> > 
> > > I could set one of these up for
> > > you as a subdomain on my domain to get started if you don't 
> > have a host site
> > > readily available.
> > 
> > I have couple of twiki-based sites, but we will see.
> > If CGI:App community will agree, why not.
> > 
> > Or do you mean a site to host CVS and scripts and all that stuff?
> > That will be usefull - I cannot do it on our server here.
> > But list might prefer sourceforge or something else.
> > I can imagine that Jesse would like to host it - to better 
> > keep eye on it.
> > 
> > Who is your host? Or just PC at home?
> > I was trying to get my website hosted at hosting service, but
> > because of lack of skills and time, I failed.
> > 
> > I'll wait over the weekend and the we'll see the response.
> > 
> > Thank you 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Peter Masiar, suppressed, (203) 764-8131
> > Yale Center for Medical Informatics (YCMI), http://ycmi.med.yale.edu
> > I am not a lawyer. My ideas are NOT binding for University.
> > In doubt, Yale policy right: http://www.yale.edu/policy/itaup.html 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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